Transcript
0:00:01 - Annalisa Holcombe
Did you know that the average human spends 92,000 hours at work during their lifetime? That's more than we spend eating, cleaning, driving, watching TV or even surfing the internet? In fact, work is what we do most. It comes second only to sleeping. Welcome to 92,000 hours, the podcast that believes in the integration of life and work.

I'm your host, Annalisa Holcombe. Before we begin, I wanted to tell you a quick story about why this podcast is so personal to me. I began practicing law at age 26 and learned many valuable lessons, including that I was deeply unhappy at work. Although I was on a path that looked like traditional success, I realized that I needed to quit my job in order to align myself with my passion and purpose. Now I am dedicated to making sure all of our 92,000 hours at work are spent well instead of simply spent. How do we construct a working world that values and accommodates our humanity? How do we construct a life that is not separate from, but fueled by, the purpose we find in our work? In this podcast, we will explore those questions and more. In each episode, I will speak to someone that demonstrates meaning, passion and purpose in their work. Join me in discovering what happens when we bring our whole selves to our work, schools and communities.

This week, I am joined by Andrew Taylor. Andrew was a native Utahan and spent his college summers as a river guide on the Colorado River. He holds a bachelor's degree in organizational communication from the University of Utah and an MBA from Westminster College. He also holds a certificate in substance use disorder counseling from the University of Utah. Andrew married his passions of helping others and exploring the great outdoors by creating his own outdoor adventure therapy program in Costa Rica called Pure Life. Today we will talk about expectation and risk and how they present themselves personally and professionally. Okay, so I gave you a heads up that I want to start with a specific question for everybody. So the question is if you take away any reference to work, school, volunteer activity, church activity, sports, all the stuff that we talk about when we often talk about your success and what you're proud of and your accomplishments, take all that out and tell me personally what's your greatest accomplishment as a human or what are you proud of about yourself?

0:02:54 - Andrew Taylor
Great question, and I've been thinking about it all day. And it's a fantastic question because, you're right, my default was work, or, you know, married my wife, who's an amazing person, or you know that's. It was very hard to be thinking about it, not in terms of accomplishments and things like that, and so I landed on two things, one being I'm very proud of the fact that I'm a kind person and that I care about people immensely, and it comes naturally to me. It's something I value and I'm proud of that. The other thing I'm very proud of is that I've followed my heart in my career, in my relationships. I'm just proud of the fact that I've followed my heart, not at every step of the way. There's some practical moments in my path that aren't in my bio.

0:03:46 - Annalisa Holcombe
Of course.

0:03:47 - Andrew Taylor
But that you know time and time again, when it mattered, I made the decision more along the lines of what I felt like was speaking to my not to sound cheesy, but speaking to my soul.

0:04:02 - Annalisa Holcombe
I don't think it's cheesy at all.

0:04:04 - Andrew Taylor
Right, right, versus, because it's you and that's what I love about you, but like versus here's what would be good for my resume, or here's what would be practical, or here's what would make everyone else around me a lot more comfortable. I have not gone that route. That's awesome. I've had two at times just out of necessity, but most of my young adult and adult path has been more along the lines of searching and following what I felt like I was supposed to do and meant to do, and that I not just passionate about, but that I was good at and that inspired me and that I felt I could do good for the world. I'm proud of that. You should be, it's a good question.

0:04:40 - Annalisa Holcombe
It's, and I'm, I'm. It almost makes me weepy thinking about it, because I can remember meeting you and seeing you working through that and your process of working through that and being unapologetic about your dreams was inspiring to me.

0:05:01 - Andrew Taylor
Well, thank you, you were part of that process for sure. I mean you caught me at the, the crux of big transitions and big steps and going after it, and you were part of that. So it was this fun to have a conversation about.

0:05:14 - Annalisa Holcombe
It is absolutely so let's talk about. I really think that I think you're the perfect person to have a conversation in this podcast about expectation and risk and those things, both individually and combined Cool, I think. I think there's so much, so I'm really interested in you telling me, just as a general, overarching perspective, what are those words mean to you, or how, and whatever those definitions are, whatever those mean to you how? How have those things been present in your life?

0:05:52 - Andrew Taylor
Well, so expectations. There's a lot of different ways, I think, a lot of different contexts to take expectations. Initially, I think of managing my personal expectations and managing expectations in running a business, and being an entrepreneur, yeah, yeah. And when I say manage them, I literally mean managing them so that they don't get out of control, because I think if you're any, if you're any kind of a dreamer, on some level you have unrealistic expectations. That's part of the beauty of it.

Like that's part of the plan and that has to be a part of the formula. And so I would say for me, as I've, you know, started my my business and moved down to Costa Rica and do what I do, I had to learn those first two or three years how to manage my expectations of myself and others, otherwise I was burning everyone out with. This is how it's got to be and this how fast it's got to happen, and you know. So that's one way to look at managing expectations. I think the other way that I think could be more meaningful for our conversation is the expectations we have of ourselves, based on who we are, where we're from, the, the community that we're raised in, and then the expectations that that we sort of are put on us, you know yeah, do you others as well?

0:07:16 - Annalisa Holcombe
In general, I've had a lot of conversations with young adults about this is that how do we manage that our expectations of ourselves, which often have resulted from the expectations that others have for us, and how hard it can be to differentiate which is which.

0:07:38 - Andrew Taylor
Totally. Now, if you grow up in an area where there's a template For what your life should or could look like Whether someone's there saying you should do this or not you tend to adopt it.

Yeah no one sat down and said Andrew, here your four options. I just sort of looked around and made sense of my world and said here would be. You know, these are good things, and you know. Then there's this sort of ambiguous business category that makes that I don't know much about or anything, and so I think growing up, my expectation of myself was that I would land in one of those areas and do well at it and have a boat in.

You know the things that I thought was the things that I thought were way cool growing up and you know and like that was my expectation of myself. And as I grew in a young adulthood I started to realize that I was wired a little differently. I'm not a rebel by nature, but just that none of those were interesting to me and they actually sounded quite miserable. All of them sounded I was like this that you know like.

0:08:41 - Annalisa Holcombe
As you got older and learned what they were like, you thought no, not even that I'm talking like.

0:08:45 - Andrew Taylor
Just like 18 years old being like man.

0:08:48 - Annalisa Holcombe
None of that sounds cool like none of it, does you?

0:08:51 - Andrew Taylor
know, and again, no one was breathing down my neck. But you know, listen, I'm the youngest of five. All my brothers super successful all my brother-in-laws, my sisters, my mom and dad, like. Like there was this sort of like you, you know, like there's just an expectation, expectation of success not from them, from me right right and Of course, they wanted.

What's best for me, and so Honestly is, is I grew into young adulthood, for whatever reason, and I think it like. I think about this a lot and I still don't have a conclusion, but I was. I'm very wired for Really loving what I do for work. I'm just in, like I do think some people work can be a means to an end. I don't relate to that, I don't.

I respected you know, and there's a big part of me that wants to be like no, like love about love what you do, be inspired, care about what you do. But there's some people that I'm sick. Well, maybe just for them that that works right, and I'm still trying to figure that out. But you know, as I got into Like young adulthood, these decisions get placed before you right, and one in college was go mo lawns all summer and make you know some good cash and you know, pay the bills and like go do fancy internship and build my resume. May go sell cell phones in the mall with my friends. They were doing really well and they still are doing really well not doing that.

There's no, not in the mall like they.

0:10:23 - Annalisa Holcombe
They're they've grown up there.

0:10:25 - Andrew Taylor
Yeah, they made good careers of that or go be a river guide no brainer like for me at that age and the expectations didn't get in the way of that and I I'm glad they did, and that's kind of. What I'm proud of is that I followed what I felt really called to me, even though it didn't seem practical at the time. I was, I was working. Okay, it was a good job, good company, good people, right, good job in that it was good experience. But I wasn't. You know, I Mean I'm embarrassed to say how much I made coming out of college, but it wasn't much at all, right, but I didn't know what I wanted to do, so it was just kind of a default job. Okay, I'm working as a sales rep for this car auction and this guy comes in big company, this guy from a whole different department comes in and I was young so they called me the kid the whole place.

0:11:16 - Annalisa Holcombe
Everybody did and I got a young face, I look young, right.

0:11:19 - Andrew Taylor
And so he's like, hey, kid, I need to go. You know, man, this booth out here on this other thing, and I was working sales, I was working commissions, I was, you know, I wasn't just like salary, like, yes, sir, I was, and I was respectful. But I went out and sat at this booth and did this thing for this guy who was kind of a jerk about it and I just it was a defining moment of my life. I sat there and I stewed and I got so pissed off it just Furious in what way it's like I don't like how this feels, I'm like this isn't my job.

You know, this isn't. I'm not an entitled person, I'm not a rebel by nature, again.

0:11:57 - Annalisa Holcombe
But it's almost like the part of in school where people get mad about doing busy work that they don't feel is moving them forward.

0:12:04 - Andrew Taylor
There you go. Yeah that's a good comparison. And so I just lit up that day and I was like I'm gonna work for myself, that's it, I know and I tell young adults this, because I work with young adults, it's my job. I tell them like go do a job, you will learn in that job what you like and what you don't like. That day, in my first job out of college, I realized I was gonna be an entrepreneur. I was gonna work for myself.

0:12:29 - Annalisa Holcombe
And you wouldn't have known that if you hadn't right, right like done the work right, I couldn't have known that in college.

0:12:34 - Andrew Taylor
I couldn't have known that Sitting and meditating on a mountaintop over, like what am I supposed to do with my life? No, I knew it because a guy told me what to do and it really bothered me and I really and like I think if you're gonna be A business owner, an entrepreneur, you have to have a chip on your shoulder, you have to be kind of pissed off.

0:12:51 - Annalisa Holcombe
That's fascinating.

0:12:52 - Andrew Taylor
You have to because it's too hard, otherwise there's something in you that has to be like, that wants it so bad and I know what it is for me and it's freedom. The irony of that statement is is that owning a business is the opposite of freedom.

But, eventually, if you do it well, you do it right, you're going to be free on some level, whatever that means for you, whether it's financially or needing to work or want, you know, working as you wish and things like that. I realized that, that I was wired for that and that that's what I needed. So I had dinner at my parents house a few nights later and I was like I get good news. Guess what I'm? I realized something about myself I'm, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur and I'm never gonna work for anyone else the rest of my life. And I was an I even arrogant, and so you can know all that went into that conversation.

And my parents were like in your resume, and I was like I will never give my resume to another person for the rest of my life, right, and of course I did. It wasn't a straight line path to starting my own business and and all those things. So, again, it wasn't that that was abnormal. My two other brothers had kind of Entrepreneurship in their blood and my parents are kind of like where'd this come from? You know they're silent generation, super stability, focused, hard-working, amazing people, but they're like where did you get this? It makes them very uncomfortable but they've been awesome and.

Yeah, so I feel like I've totally gotten off rails on your first question. But we're talking about expectations, right and so, and so, once again, I made a decision in that time frame to Do something that no one expected and that actually people was kind of like starting to get people on really uncomfortable, and that was I still had this dream to go to Riverguide in Costa Rica. Anyone, I mean to say dream, this idea, this passion, this thing I couldn't shake.

0:14:49 - Annalisa Holcombe
I couldn't like it was just in you.

0:14:50 - Andrew Taylor
It's just in me. It's like come on, man, I'm not married. Like I'm not good, I don't have large commitments in my life.

0:14:56 - Annalisa Holcombe
Like I gotta. Why am I not a poster? Why would I know, Right yeah and so. I think. But you'd been to Costa Rica so you knew it.

0:15:03 - Andrew Taylor
No, I didn't know anybody in Costa Rica?

0:15:06 - Annalisa Holcombe
I never told to it.

0:15:07 - Andrew Taylor
I was just what these guys had told me, that they'd Riverguided down there and it was beautiful, and I thought, okay, cool, this will be great. I had kayaking Venezuela, like I had spent a lot of time in Latin America, so I was very comfortable with the idea and I pulled over on the side of the road. I Pulled out my flip phone, called Delta, and I'm like driving up sky miles to fly to Costa Rica roundtrip and this lady's leg.

And I didn't wake up that morning with the plan, I Literally was like I'm gonna call Delta and see what's going on and this is another one of the concepts that I love teaching young adults and that's what's the next step. What's the small next step? Whatever it may be, and for me it was pulling over and calling Delta. That was the small next step. No plan just Delta. Can I fly to you know?

0:15:51 - Annalisa Holcombe
Can I get there?

0:15:52 - Andrew Taylor
Can I get there? And the lady's like, yeah, you can, what dates would you like to look at Again? I'm like 25, 26 at the time. All my friends are getting married. Like you know, you talk cultures.

Yeah, you're not doing it, married you get the job you kind of you know and and that wasn't Happening for me at that time and so I'm like I'm leaving. So I called Delta and the ladies like yeah, you know, types it all in. She's like you want to book it. And I'm like my hands start shaking and I'm like, yeah, book it.

0:16:21 - Annalisa Holcombe
Woohoo right and like you didn't know you were gonna do it that day. You just did it just did it.

0:16:26 - Andrew Taylor
Just did it and like something felt awesome about that. I was just like so thrilled and terrified I didn't tell anybody for weeks, wow. And I Was like of course I was gonna quit my job and of course I was gonna do all you know, and like I didn't have a job. So I, like you know, emailed all these rafting companies. Everybody said no, and Like a week before I flew down, I had enough money to travel. That was my plan is like, if all it's failed, I didn't get a job, at least I just go travel and backpack and come home and then I would grow up.

0:16:57 - Annalisa Holcombe
How long was the trip like when she said okay and you booked your?

0:17:01 - Andrew Taylor
house time that I have.

Yeah, I think I had about three, four months, so I plenty of time to plan and and try to find something right a week before I fly down I meet a guy who knows, a guy who says I Email this guy and he's like we'll pick you over the airport and you can run. You're gonna run our whitewater program. Stay as long as you want, we have housing for you, food and in your off time you can hang out our surf base or do whatever you want. Like I was in Heaven. I was like that, like it was the coolest thing that ever happened. Landed in Costa Rica, two guys picked me up at the airport. They're still my very close friends and they now work for my current Company 16 years ago.

Oh, and again, I was just following my heart. Yeah, and I think in your 20s you should. I honestly, nowadays, nowadays maybe not 40 years ago, but nowadays your 20s Go nuts, man. Like not not completely Go nuts in terms of like go experience the world, do cool things, do stuff that doesn't make sense, discover life, figure out who you are. That's a big, big big, the advocate of that. Don't go nuts like partying and whatnot, like that's not what I'm saying.

0:18:16 - Annalisa Holcombe
I'm saying like self-discovery nuts yeah make it a mess man.

0:18:20 - Andrew Taylor
My 20s were a mess in a beautiful way. It wasn't until I started Realizing that I was good at certain things that I started figuring out my path. Here's the problem, though and this is the other part of the equation that we have to explore with these young people Is it's not just saying what are you good at, because there are certain things that people are good at that are very easy to apply to a career right.

Okay, you're great at math, You're great at chemistry, you're great at Sciences. Okay, there's some careers that are really gonna be very and that they have a path drawn out for you. Okay, you're good at I Can't think of another.

0:19:04 - Annalisa Holcombe
I'm gonna give you Okay. At the beginning, when we talked about your what, you're proud of it by yourself you had kindness in there.

0:19:11 - Andrew Taylor
Kindness. I was good with people. Yeah, when you're good with people, what do you do with that? Right, and I'm good at speaking, I'm good at teaching and, like you know, working through ideas with people like so but there isn't a like, a set path for that.

0:19:27 - Annalisa Holcombe
What's the?

0:19:27 - Andrew Taylor
path man, and it could be a school teacher. I explored that route in college and decided against it for a few reasons, but there wasn't a path.

And so what do you tell the little Andrew Taylor's of the world that are like, okay, I'm good at these things, but I have no idea how that applies to real life, so what did it? Where did I waste a lot of my energy as a kid and is in a young adult? I wasted a lot of my energy trying to be something I wasn't yeah, because I thought that that was what I was supposed to do and there wasn't a clear path for my specific gifts. That really called to me right how I wished I could have been. Like, yeah, I really want to be a doctor and I'm really good. I'm really good at the things that are gonna make me good at being a doctor. That would have been so relieving to me at 23 years old.

0:20:13 - Annalisa Holcombe
I bet everybody that's listening to this feels this, I feel it even gives me a little bit of anxiety.

0:20:19 - Andrew Taylor
I'm like I remember that that's why I went to law school Totally, and then I graduated from law school oh no and I tell, so I tell our students I'm like, how like, and even if you know right now what you want to be, I'm gonna challenge you to rethink it and just not that we're gonna throw it off the table. But I, and I always say, I Always say I can't tell you how many attorneys I know that hate being a turn there.

0:20:42 - Annalisa Holcombe
They hate the Lord's right.

0:20:44 - Andrew Taylor
Yeah, they hate that, and so the other thing that we need to talk about when when I'm talking to these young people is hygiene factors, and this is what nobody told me about. Like no one sent me down and said let's walk through hygiene factors, and this I got it from Clayton Christiansen's book how we measure your life, and I don't think it's his concept, but it's this idea that we need to. Also, as we're discovering what we're good at, as we're figuring out how we're wired, we need to ask the question around what do I need out of a job? Do I need structure? Do I need independence? Do I need a lot of money?

0:21:19 - Annalisa Holcombe
People don't teach us this.

0:21:20 - Andrew Taylor
No one teaches that. What do we say?

0:21:23 - Annalisa Holcombe
Follow your passions. Yes, do what you love, nothing else matters. You never work another day the rest of your life.

0:21:27 - Andrew Taylor
Like no that's not no, don't say that it's irresponsible. Like it's true. Follow your passions. I believe that. I mean. That's how we started this whole episode. Right, but but no Like. Do you want to live in a big city? Do you want to live in a small town? Do you want to live in Costa Rica? Do you want to? Do? You need security? Do you need certainty? Are you okay with uncertainty? And that's why that that that moment at that at the car auction, when I got really pissed off and realized I wanted to go work for myself, was so crucial. That was a hygiene factor moment for me when I knew that I wasn't gonna be happy at a job long term.

0:22:04 - Annalisa Holcombe
Right.

0:22:04 - Andrew Taylor
Unless I, unless, I had the feeling that I didn't have a roof or a ceiling or people telling me what to do.

0:22:09 - Annalisa Holcombe
Right, right.

0:22:11 - Andrew Taylor
Right, that's a hygiene factor, and so what I ask our clients to do is go through your hygiene factors. And they don't know. I mean, all of them say I don't want to work at a desk. Well, we all no one on this one would work at a desk when we were 20. Right, you know. But they do have a good idea and some of them are like, yeah, money's way important to me. Great, that's important that you know that.

0:22:34 - Annalisa Holcombe
Yeah, keep it yeah, right.

0:22:36 - Andrew Taylor
Like you're not gonna be happy at a job where you're not gonna fulfill those needs or whatever, and that's part of getting to know yourself, and so those are the kinds of conversations that I have and what I love that. What I find is, most young people have no concept of hygiene factors.

0:22:52 - Annalisa Holcombe
No.

0:22:53 - Andrew Taylor
No concept.

0:22:54 - Annalisa Holcombe
I don't think we teach Like. All we tell people is find, Follow your passion. Or when you're looking at this job, nobody says to look at those things. They say to look at how much you're gonna get paid and what your benefits are Right. They don't say to think through all of this other stuff and whether you fit Right.

0:23:09 - Andrew Taylor
Totally. And so you take your hygiene factors, you take your dreams, you take your interests, what you're good at and what you're good at Now. Now we have a picture, and then that's where I go to the next five. What are the next five steps?

you have to take Five steps in, not in one direction, but what are five different areas you can take a small step, such as To explore, to explore these interests and these hygiene factors, because some of your interests may not meet your hygiene factors. Fascinating, right, yes, and so let's watch Like I wanna do that now Totally.

0:23:50 - Annalisa Holcombe
If this conversation has caught your attention and you want to join in on conversations like this, check out our website at ConnectionCollaborative.com. Welcome back. You're listening to 92,000 Hours and today we're chatting with Andrew Taylor.

0:24:12 - Andrew Taylor
What do we do? We ask what are you gonna be when you grow up? What are you gonna do?

0:24:16 - Annalisa Holcombe
What's your major? What are you gonna?

0:24:17 - Andrew Taylor
be Worst question in the world. I am like If I could find a way to sit down with all these college freshmen and be like don't decide, don't tell anyone, don't do it. Wait till you're 27, 30, 35 to decide what you're gonna be. Work hard yes, get out there, get after it. Yes, explore, have fun, do all those things, but don't decide, man. In a lot of ways, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to speak to the 23 year old version of me in the work that I did. Right, that's what drives me and that's what I enjoy about sitting down with young adults is I enjoy sitting down and saying please do not leave my program, saying I want to be a doctor, right? No, please don't do that. Leave my program with a good understanding of who you are and some really fun areas you're gonna explore and that's it.

Please, that's it, and embrace the messiness that will be this journey and this adventure, and the uncertainty and the ups and downs of it, and the expectations of the people who love you that are going to question you along the way, like and just freaking. Absorb it and let it be beautiful, because it will take you places you never even thought it would.

0:25:36 - Annalisa Holcombe
I have another question that's going to be even bigger and I it's just because I think it'd be interesting to talk about which is, like I want to take it even more macro about, like, what are your thoughts about our society? Like, have we as a country or as a? Yeah, maybe have we lost our risk taking capabilities?

0:26:02 - Andrew Taylor
Hmm, I don't know, I haven't thought about that. I know that's a really interesting question.

0:26:07 - Annalisa Holcombe
Like I don't even do. What makes you think?

0:26:09 - Andrew Taylor
that? Where's that coming from? What are your thoughts on it?

0:26:12 - Annalisa Holcombe
I think that I think that we are struggling with our ability to tolerate uncertainty. I think that we, we want, I think that I think that we live in times that are so uncertain that we that we struggle with it so much that we are we're certain that we're right or we're certain that this is the right direction, and we can't hear each other talk.

0:26:36 - Andrew Taylor
Okay, I see this play out in my program in terms of parenting styles.

0:26:42 - Annalisa Holcombe
Interesting.

0:26:43 - Andrew Taylor
And so what I see in my industry is parents that that are not willing to allow, that are not willing to the word, that are uncomfortable with their kids taking risks.

0:27:00 - Annalisa Holcombe
They're afraid.

0:27:00 - Andrew Taylor
They're afraid, they're uncomfortable. Listen, we're living in a day where people aren't letting their kids walk home from school. Right, right you type past the free range law. This is like I could talk about this all day long. Like I don't.

We got two more hours in this thing, but like we're living in a time where we're not letting kids walk home from school, we're not letting them play in the front yard, we're not letting them go to the park the the tall slide of the park is now half the size Like we are not pushing our kids to take risks. Yes, I think we're absolutely seeing a very scared generation as a result of that, a nervous and anxious, and a generation that doesn't know that they're capable of way more than they thought they were, because we're coddling them. So, yeah, we are not comfortable with uncertainty when it comes to our kids at all.

0:27:50 - Annalisa Holcombe
What are we going to do?

0:27:52 - Andrew Taylor
We have got to. I don't know.

0:27:55 - Annalisa Holcombe
I feel like that's another hour.

0:27:58 - Andrew Taylor
Well, because I'm on a podcast and because I'm smart, I know. No, I mean, I think like, I think, I think we've got to, we've got to. I think parents need to be accountable. We're talking about the kids who are depressed and anxious. Let's talk about parents who are depressed and anxious. Okay, let's talk about the anxious parents because that's what that's what we're seeing in in there.

You got to let these kids struggle. You got to let them get caught and bruised and hurt. And listen, I'm almost one year old twins and I get it terrified that they're going to get hurt.

0:28:35 - Annalisa Holcombe
And hopefully they do at some point. Yeah, and then you're around to help them get through it.

0:28:41 - Andrew Taylor
Right, but have them forbid. I'm a negligent parent, right, and have them forbid. I do something that results in serious injury or horror. And the irony of all this I don't know if you've read Stephen Pinker's book. Enlightenment Now is the world has never been a safer place, ever. Right it like homicide, child abduction, you know, all these things are way down. Disease way down, like all this stuff, like poverty, everything is. It's never been a better time to be a minority, to be a woman, and and we are terrified, we're, we're scared of the wrong things. In my opinion, we are so scared of the boogeyman Right now, but you know we're not when. You know it's not terrifying us giving an eight-year-old a smartphone.

0:29:36 - Annalisa Holcombe
Yeah, that's fascinating suicide is up.

0:29:39 - Andrew Taylor
Suicide is massively up, homicide is down. We're, we will go to extreme lengths to make sure the boogeyman doesn't get our kids, and I'm not trying to be insensitive here. Okay to that reality of that and it is a reality, but we will go to extreme lengths to take to manage that and we but the boogeyman might be on our phone. We will give our kids smartphones and screens. Wow and not even think twice about it.

0:30:05 - Annalisa Holcombe
It's such a and the screen. It's like such an important thing to talk about totally.

0:30:10 - Andrew Taylor
It's just the irony of what's going on right now in parenting, right in the screens, are causing these young people to remain children. They're not going out and making friends. They're not going out. They're not. They're not going to get their driver's license. Why would they? They can sit in their room and get all their needs met.

0:30:28 - Annalisa Holcombe
They're not having conversations with people. They're not there.

0:30:31 - Andrew Taylor
I mean they Not as much. They're not like we wandered the streets. We wandered the streets at night. My parents were strict and I spent my junior high days walking the streets at night in safe neighborhoods. In the Weekend night was like whose parents will let us hang out at their house? It's two miles, that way we will walk Right. I mean that stuff doesn't happen anymore and it won't and I'm not trying to say that like we need to go back to that, but I'm saying we're missing that it's like we we're Policing the things that we know how to police.

0:31:10 - Annalisa Holcombe
Whether danger isn't necessarily as much, but we know, we know how to know how to police.

0:31:15 - Andrew Taylor
That it's a good point. I didn't think about that, but we don't know.

0:31:18 - Annalisa Holcombe
Yeah, like we're confused. We don't know what the dangers are. Yeah, what to do about him?

0:31:25 - Andrew Taylor
totally, totally that's interesting. Yeah, so I mean, it's just an interesting time to be alive. Parenting has gone next level and I'm not Blame. It's easy to blame the parents and I may sound like I am but the parent, the current parent and I I am a current parent, but I'm not dealing with that stuff yet right now. I'm just dealing with dirty diapers. But the current parent is been dealt a very difficult situation Without a lot of clear instruction and how to manage it right.

0:31:54 - Annalisa Holcombe
Right, because it's completely different than what their parents.

0:31:56 - Andrew Taylor
The game has Changed a thousand percent and it's not an easy one to manage. It's not To your point. It's easy to manage. I'll come pick you up at school instead of walking home. It's not easy to manage. Who are you talking to online? Who are you talking to you, texting with what after you want?

0:32:12 - Annalisa Holcombe
Yeah, yeah, it's a very complex scenario to manage, so that's a good, fair point and how are you feeling about the comparisons that we're not talking about, like all that right, because you might be talking to really nice people online and yet you're feeling bad about yourself because it looks like they're having a better life than you, or something totally Totally, and young women are more susceptible than young men.

0:32:31 - Andrew Taylor
Yeah they're both susceptible, but young women are more susceptible, according to the research. It's fascinating.

0:32:37 - Annalisa Holcombe
Yeah, well, I'm hoping that you're working hard on that.

0:32:40 - Andrew Taylor
We are actually I'm working with some people locally and we're trying to do some education on this very thing.

0:32:45 - Annalisa Holcombe
That's awesome, yeah, so, as you know, I'm personally really passionate about the role of mentors in our lives, mm-hmm. So I am interested in hearing from you have you had any particular mentor that was important to you, and why?

0:33:00 - Andrew Taylor
It's a great question. Many, many in different forms at different times. Coaches, a lot of coaches growing up that were hard on me and good for me. I I now seek out coaches. I've since starting my business, I've realized I really need coaching and.

I need that outlet, and so I've got a great coach mentor right now. I've got I'm. I Need help, so I Usually well, yeah, I usually reach out to a lot of people and try and find People, and what I find is is that there's a time frame that certain people make sense. Yeah not that I'm like burning and churning, but like that.

There's certain times where different reasons, where mentors really really help you. You know, in my adult life I've learned that I have to seek it out. We're in my Adolescence and you know kind of young adult, there's more structure built to give that to you but I think we all need it constantly. I will always have a mentor.

0:34:03 - Annalisa Holcombe
I have a question I didn't intend to ask, but okay, how, what advice do you give to people who are Adult about seeking out a mentor? Like, how do you actually do it? Because I think that's something we struggle with figuring out how to ask for that.

0:34:17 - Andrew Taylor
It's a good question. I, I mean, hiring a coach is one. If they can, they can afford it. I, that's it. That's my go-to, like you know. I I think that I think that people could benefit from coaching, and I don't think it always has to be therapy. Right, I think we also go through some form of therapy.

I do, I think every person, no matter who you are what you're doing would benefit from some self-awareness around your life. Not that it has to be a deep dive, but I think there's a time and a place for that and it's healthy. Beyond that, I don't think it. I think just having an outlet, having a Third-party that is not attached to your results, not a spouse, not a boss, not a co-worker but they can really sit down and be like hey, you're, you're, you're thinking's off, or You're thinking's on, or man, you're asking good questions. You're really upset about this. Why do you think that is you know? And asking that how's the ability to do that?

0:35:20 - Annalisa Holcombe
Alright, so my last question is Goes back to the theme of the podcast. So if we are spending 92,000 hours at work and I firmly believe and I bet you do too that time is our biggest and most precious resource what makes what you're doing worth that investment?

0:35:49 - Andrew Taylor
That I enjoy it and I feel like I'm making a difference, like that makes it worth it and it makes me I'm good at it. There's a lot of things I suck at this. I can do and that makes it worth my time and kind of bringing full circle everything we've talked about and I guess it's already been said, but I feel like I'm my best self in this setting and. I feel that I'm able to contribute the most good to the world in this setting and I get paid for it.

You know it's not volunteer, you know, and it contributes a lot of good to me, my family, my life, in just so many ways other than money or this is where I spend my time.

0:36:55 - Annalisa Holcombe
My sincerest thanks to Andrew for taking the time to tell us about his experience. We recorded this episode prior to the pandemic and since that time, andrew has taken another calculated risk and started an additional business, octagon Mentoring. You can learn more about Andrew by connecting with him on LinkedIn and you can learn more about his companies, Peer Life on their website, peerlifeadventure.com, and Octagon Mentoring at OctagonMentoring.com. In our next episode, I will be speaking to Susan Arsht. Susan is a professor of management and she holds a PhD in intercultural communication. Her research focuses on quality connections, positive relationships and organizational climate. Just in time for Halloween, we will be speaking about fear and strategies to push ourselves out of our comfort zones. Join us, as always.

Thank you for listening to 92,000 Hours. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave us a review. We really appreciate your support. If you're interested in integrating the personal and professional through authentic conversation, just like you heard on our episode today, please check out our work at Connection Collaborative. You can find us at ConnectionCollaborative.com or send me an email at annalisa@ConnectionCollaborative.com. Thank you and see you next week on 92,000 Hours. 92,000 Hours is made possible by Connection Collaborative. This episode was produced and edited by Brianna Steggell. Lexie Banks is our marketing director and I'm your host, Annalisa Holcombe.